(no subject)

[cblj_backup]

See? I'm doing better this week! Because it is already time for Sam's Three Things About Doctor Who!

Spoilers for Doctor Who 6.05: The Really Ooky Flesh

1. This episode seemed almost back to front. I kept thinking, during certain monologues, "Isn't this usually the speech we get at the climax?" It wasn't boring, but it did have a very steady-energy, no-build feel to it. You'd think people who could write brilliant stuff like Doctor Who, which used to manage a build and climax in every part of, say, a TEN PART EPISODE, would be able to get past this backloaded-two-parter thing. Maybe I'm wrong, though. We'll see next week!

2. Is it me or have the one-off characters been a bit inclined towards hysteria lately? I mean this episode was basically driven by the slightly unrealistic irrationality of the science team and their gangers. You know what it's like, it's like these people exist in a world where Science Fiction doesn't.

Scifi is one of the great moral instructors of our time -- the vast majority of it, in any medium, frames contemporary ethical dilemmas within futuristic worlds. It's practically a marker of the genre and we all accept it, this idea that we're watching people of the future struggle with problems that are allegorically linked to ones we face every day. It reinforces the idea that a particular moral code is timeless and universal. Much of science fiction teaches that a code of understanding, patience, and mercy is necessary for the survival and prosperity of the species, but even dystopian fiction posits an opposing code of wariness, perception, and the power inherent in strength.

As a byproduct, all this prepares us to deal, emotionally and spiritually, with things that haven't happened yet. These people act like people who haven't even had the most basic indoctrination that we all get just by existing in the same culture as the scifi genre. I get where the problem lies: if they aren't suspicious of their doubles, then there's absolutely jack-shit driving the plot. But maybe that means there ought to be a different plot, because at the moment they're rather caricatures, and we've all had this particular moral lesson before.

3. AHAHAHAHA DOCTORGANGER. (Also, we think this is the Birth Of The Autons, yes?)

3a. I couldn't figure out any particular reason to be using a castle for this episode, but that's because for a while I forgot a cardinal rule of Doctor Who: WE DON'T NEED A REASON FOR A CASTLE.

Comments

[devohoneybee.livejournal.com]

I was wondering if it was the autons... does that explain Rory's particular empathy for them?

Autons were distinctly called "plastic" -- but... they must be able to pass pretty well or the Doctor would have sensed Roman!Rory was ... different. neh?

The Doctor clearly has an idea of the future of this sad little tale.

Totally with you on the implicit ethical code of science fiction, and how sadly lacking it is here. And I disagree there would be no plot if they weren't hysterical -- a far subtler and scarier version would have them wanting to trust, but small things betraying them, ratcheting up the distrust slowly and with conflict and complexity to it. Ah well. A Neil Gaiman ep is a VERY HARD ACT TO FOLLOW.

[lots42.livejournal.com]

Admittedly I missed those episodes but the Doctor has let 'alien doubles' pass for the good humans before for his own reasons.

And I was totally thinking that last sentence. But the Doctor running pell mell through an ancient monastery? TOTALLY AWESOME.

[ogew.livejournal.com]

And come to think of it if they felt like plastic River would have noticed something when she was kissing them (to use the lipstick) wouldn't she?

[juniper200.livejournal.com]

WE DON'T NEED A REASON FOR A CASTLE.

It's England. You can't swing a cat without hitting a castle, right?

[perrie.livejournal.com]

Pretty much. I basically grew up beside a whopping great Norman one with Roman ruins underneath, and it's not even a particular great castle of note. There's a better one down the road.

[martinius.livejournal.com]

Do English people swing cats very often? Don't you have laws against that? I mean, at least someone who wants to protect the castles would make sure no cats would be swung into the castles.

[rowanberries.livejournal.com]

Yeah... truth be told, I'm from a fairly unimportant suburban town outside London, and we have a castle. Mostly just a keep. But still, every time I see a castle in a fictional show and go 'pfft!' I have to admit that actually... yeah, we have a lot of castles.

[brewsternorth.livejournal.com]

WALES. (Caerphilly Castle, apparently.) But yes.

[shadings.livejournal.com]

They didn't just film it in one castle. They filmed it in four different castles. (Okay, I think one of those locations wasn't a castle, but I'm pretty sure there were at least three different castles involved.)

Doctor Who: WE DON'T NEED A REASON FOR THREE CASTLES.

[lots42.livejournal.com]

THERE ARE FOUR CASTLES!

[priscellie.livejournal.com]

I am willing to forgive this episode a great multitude of sins, because it actually gave Rory stuff to do! And playing the moral high ground, at that, and action-hero champion for the lady? These things make me a happy girl, indeed.

On the other hand, I definitely agree with your point about the sci-fi moral code. I think in order for the instant distrust to work, we would've needed to see more tension between the originals and the Flesh copies at the beginning--more of an emphasis that to the originals, they are tools, an unpleasant necessity. The show conveyed that the originals thought of them as disposable, but I didn't get the sense that they felt discomfort or uneasiness at the idea of these copies existing.

After the solar storm, it seemed like the originals were freaked out by the copies existence--something they should be somewhat used to by now. Well, no, that's not quite right. The independent thought was new, and the idea that an extension of yourself existed completely outside of your control. If some mossy growth you'd worn as a suit time and time again suddenly started talking back, claiming to be your equal, that would freak anybody out. But there's so much great drama to be mined in that situation: the fear of being replaced or usurped, that there is a being who purports to hold equal claim over your life. That great moral question of what makes a person is the fascinating bit, not "LET'S ATTACK EACH OTHER!" "Us Against Them" is dreadfully boring in comparison.

And actually, getting back to a comment I made in the second paragraph, that lack of respect for life is really interesting. In the first scene, Jennifer essentially knocked her partner into the acid, and her only thought was for the equipment he was wearing. Shouldn't her clone have been created with that same moral alignment? And wouldn't it be even more horrifying for her to have to confront that dark part of her soul that has been shaped to believe clones are disposable, and therefore so is she?

I also felt the Doctor gave up on the belligerent factions a little too quickly, after one of the copies was shot. This is a man who can silence a room with a word. Where was that force of personality, demanding sanity?

[lots42.livejournal.com]

That one guy was totally freaking out because not only was his double there, his double wanted to go to his kid's birthday party. Hell no some moss-suit ain't seeing my kid!

And...pardon? She didn't knock her partner into the acid. Her partner was hanging in harness right across from her. All she did was ruin a nice suit.

[kit-maxel.livejournal.com]

It feels a little too "Hungry Earth"/"Cold Blood" for me...

[kallaneboi.livejournal.com]

YAY I'm not the only one. After that lady in charge went batshit with the homemade tazer, I thought, "Well, they've exchanged the green scaly people with putty people who came out of a tub of cornstarch. Awesome."

[tartancravat.livejournal.com]

Re: a different plot--it would have been awesome to have a plot driven by the bit about them being basically the same people. Which one gets to be the one guy's son's father? Anyway, it would be super creepy to be trying to kill yourself.

[(Anonymous)]

About the only thing I could see being novel about the current setup is duplicate Doctor.

Since this season seems to be focusing on his flaws more, it'd be interesting if duplicate Doctor honestly treated the humans the way the Doctor treats aliens he's given up on.

[mitchy.livejournal.com]

I couldn't figure out any particular reason to be using a castle for this episode,

Because it's standing in for a monastery, because we have more intact castles than we do monasteries, thanks to Henry VIII's temper tantrum with the Church :)

[copperbadge.livejournal.com]

Yeah, but my point was more, this doesn't have to be set in a monastery either, for any visible reason at least...

[kallaneboi.livejournal.com]

Also, the vat of Flesh? Make your own! Two parts cornstarch to one part water! Non-Newtonian fluid! Great science experiment for the kids! Color it green and it's Ooblek! :P

[goseaward.livejournal.com]

And if you have a spare speaker cone, it does awesome tricks (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3zoTKXXNQIU)!

[lots42.livejournal.com]

The castle contained the acid sort of well. You don't want a giant melty hole in the middle of London.

2 - The extras were either people who just had melty-faced doubles created of themselves or people who realized their entire life was a lie and also they were made of plastic they can't control. The one girl totally did a bathroom punch on the Cute One. Not surprised she got a bit hysterical. Then later, one of their friends totally french fries another.

Anywho, I disagree. They are a bunch of disagreeable govermental contractors who just gave birth to themselves. All in all, they're handling it pretty well. It's Amy who's going a bit off the rails, all because the woman Rory is trying to save is cute.

And note how AWESOME Rory was. The writers noticed what I did, that having Rory spend most of the episode insane, murderous or hooked up to happy alien drug sick bay is not working out for the heroics.

And P.S. Shouldn't Rory BE an expert in medevial culture? Didn't his plastic double (hey!) live through it?

[shadowturquoise.livejournal.com]

Speaking of Rory's plastic double, I'd imagine that he empathizes with the gangers because he has been in that exact spot before. Remember in Pandorica Opens when he was yelling and begging that HE was Rory? I'll be really disappointed if that isn't brought up next week.

[calliope-jones.livejournal.com]

I was terribly disappointed in this episode. It just wasn't very interesting and didn't really make a lot of sense. But following last weeks ep, not a whole lot would be impressive.

[only-sound.livejournal.com]

Someone else (anyone else!) please tell me you giggled a little when the Doctor said, "I love cockerels!"

Until then I'll just sit over here and be 12 years old alone.

[lots42.livejournal.com]

I missed that line (due to reality) but I giggled when I read your comment.

[scarletscarlet.livejournal.com]

Is it too early in the season for a duplicate Doctor to have anything to do with what happened in the first episode? Seems like that would be far, far too easy.

[cat63.livejournal.com]

The Doctor in the first episode was clearly starting to regenerate before the whatever in the suit shot him for the last time - would the duplicate be that good, I wonder?

But yes, too easy, I think.

[elainasaunt.livejournal.com]

(Also, we think this is the Birth Of The Autons, yes?)

Many people appear to agree. And it would be nice, given Rory's experience and the role they played last season. But I'm not sure how they would retcon it to match what we know of the back story of the Nestene Consciousness and the Autons.

The Tardis Index File wiki says that, according to one of the Past Doctor Adventure novels, the NC has been around almost since the beginning of the universe. And even in New Who, it's canon that the NC operates by animating plastic - either already existing plastic objects or purpose-made "Nestene duplicates." That's not what the Flesh appears to be.

[copperbadge.livejournal.com]

Wibbly wobbly, timey wimey... :D Though you're not wrong, in classic Who the Autons were specifically stamped out of plastic, they actually invade a doll factory in order to make them.

[equusregia.livejournal.com]

Though I agree that the science team were a little over the top, I disagree that the audience should expect a substantially calmer and more rational response. First of all, though sci fi is ubiquitous in our culture, there are other cultures that read little or no sci fi for various reasons. The science team seem to be from a similar culture to ours, but we don't really know what their body of knowledge is.

And even assuming that they have science fiction, or hell, just plain old philosophy and science, that doesn't mean they'll be able to easily integrate 1) the swift transition of tools into beings, and 2) doubles of themselves who feel entitled to take over their lives. Add to that that these scientists are used to staying safely in their aparatus and letting the gangers face the danger, I understand them feeling skittish when their protection not only stops functioning but appears to turn on them. It's as if their acid suits stood up and demanded emancipation.

A regular theme of sci fi is dealing with things (computers, robots) that we thought were tools, but became sentient and thus threatening. So saying that a regular diet of sci fi should keep people from overreacting denies a basic premise of sci fi itself: If something that was an "it" starts to be a "you," or even worse a "me," it is human nature to freak the fuck out. If highly educated people can get into ugly flame wars over race in sci fi, obviously sci fi isn't a tonic against overreactions and mistrust of the seeming "other."

[copperbadge.livejournal.com]

I thought we pretty much knew what the science team's deal was? They're human, anyway, and they can't be too far in our future as they're using a 13th century monastery for their work. Granted there could have been major cultural upheavals, but I'm not talking about canon as much as I am about lazy writing -- their horrified and immediately aggressive reactions are what drives the entire plot, and as an audience member I didn't find those reactions proportionate, and I don't think a lot of other people did, either. It's not about their culture -- it's about ours, 'cause we're the ones watching it. :D

Of course scifi isn't a perfect balm for the fear of the Other -- as you say, racefail &etc. But it does teach tempered reactions to specific conditions in the audience, at least, and when you're telling a story you do actually need to take your audience into account. The idea that an audience exposed to concepts like cloning and the uncanny valley is expected to accept these people aren't even a little suspicious their suits might be sentient, especially since it's a very new technology, that's a little unreasonable IMO.

[(Anonymous)]

If Jack Harkness were in this episode, there would be ENTIRELY DIFFERENT problems.

I think that this episode had tremendous emotional potential in that one scrap of dialogue where the Ganger says he wants to see his son. How would a peaceful attempt to integrate one's ganger into family life work? Could it be done fairly?

Perhaps some gangers could find ways to build new lives, and some would be driven mad by the strain of self-sacrifice and the feeling of being rejected by people that they love. (Cue Obligatory Monster Rampage, Now for a Limited Time Only with Logical Justification!)

And there could be human jealousy and suspicion. It could be a great vehicle for commentary on divorce and love, from different perspectives and with several outcomes.

[delirieuse.livejournal.com]

YES to this comment.

I have a whole much of robot microstories what I done wrote that, it occurs to me now, are partly to do with trying to explore these themes.

[ekaterinn.livejournal.com]

I just saw this episode and I pretty much felt "meh". As others have said, we've done this before, do we really have to waste two episodes on the same fucking plot? I admit that the duplicate Doctor might be cool, and Rory was awesome, but it doesn't make up for the fact of been there, seen that, bought my clone a T-shirt.

And honestly, would it have killed Casting to include at least one non-white character? They and their ganger could have doubled the number of non-white characters in this season! (Unless I missed something, I think the Secret Agent dude and one of the pirates are the only non-white people so far).

[robling-t.livejournal.com]

I was thinking as I watched that the eventual payoff is going to be that the "originals" aren't either, and that's why they're freaking out so badly at the concept of the gangers having indistinguishable memories -- it raises doubt in their minds about who they are, and thus jumping straight to KILL IT WITH FIRE seems like a proportionate response to that threat to their identities. But then, I've watched enough science fiction that my first thought RE Obama's Big Announcement was "Toclafane?"... and my second was "asteroid?".

[ogew.livejournal.com]

I have to disagree with your comments about it being like they don't live in a world with Sci Fi, and it not making sense. I don't know where you are, or who you hang with (I think I'd like to be there as opposed to here.) but around here, what we saw from the human crew was actually downright civilized vs what I would see from 90% of the people I know in my area. After all at one point they actually tried - and with the exception of the HBIC nobody pulled a shotgun...

All that to say, I think most people (at least here in America) would have responded just about the same blessed way... whether I agree with that reaction or not.

[natf.livejournal.com]

I couldn't figure out any particular reason to be using a castle for this episode

I take it you don't watch Doctor Who Confidential, then. It is because the writer said so. ;-p

P.S. To all the people ranting about how this is not great SciFi, just two words; "FAMILY SHOW". Or, maybe, a few more; "Saturday. Teatime. Family. Show. That. Kids. Watch."