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Nov. 4th, 2005 07:12 pmSo I just saw Utica, which was the last new episode of Rome, so I'm all caught up for this Sunday. GodDAMMIT, this show just keeps getting better.
That having been said, I'm struggling with Utica a little because I'm not sure how I feel about the incest thing.
Servilia suggests that Octavia seduce her brother Octavian, later the emperor Augustus, in order to get him to tell her about Julius Caesar's epilepsy. Octavia does so, and Octavian goes quite willingly. After which, they are caught by their mother Atia who puts most of the blame on Octavian and then shames Octavia.
I struggle with the incest because, primarily, I know that it's unlikely it occurred. Also I'm fond of Octavian as a character and I don't like to think of him as a "little pervert" (Atia's words). While I personally don't get off on incest fic, etc....
Well. I looked at it from three angles, after which I feel a bit better about the whole thing.
1. Textually speaking: Yes, Suetonius says that Augustus had sex with his sister. But taking into account that Suetonius says this about nearly everyone -- it was a standard slander of the day -- it's hard to find evidence for it. Augustus, in his public and personal life, was a temperate, prudish man who encouraged the sort of conservative family values that make George Dubyah look like a libertine. He exiled his daughter to an island for lesbian activity -- and for god's sake, would have killed her for it if he thought he would get away with it.
However, if we take Suetonius literally:
2. Historically speaking: incest was not considered as abhorrent in some ancient cultures in Africa and the Mediterranean as it is in modern Western culture, whence this series sprang. For a start, the Egyptians engaged in ritual married incest in order to keep the royal bloodline pure. Bear in mind that Cleopatra was married to her preadolescent brother and, after he grew up, would probably have had sex and children with him without anyone lifting an eyebrow. There is evidence being debated in classical circles that lower-class Egyptians occasionally did this as well, in the form of letters between married couples in which they address each other as "brother" and "sister". In addition, the Greek gods, long since subsumed into Roman culture by the time Augustus was born, were predominantly married siblings (Zeus and Hera, et cetera). It was not culturally acceptable in Rome, but it was not necessarily the deep taboo it is today.
3. Literarily speaking: if you look at the way Octavian treats his family and his every-day acquaintances, it appears much more likely that he entered into the process in an anthrpological spirit. Yes, he was a young man who probably wanted sex, but he also thought very rationally about the ramifications of it and the likely cause and result. He is reliably portrayed as an intelligent young man who is interested in all aspects of human relations. He's studied Greek and Egyptian culture extensively by this time and he would be aware that while incest may be considered barbaric by Romans, it was perfectly acceptable in other parts of the world. To me, it looks like he considered the consequences versus the knowledge gained, and decided that it would at least be an interesting experience. Such a mind, while possibly sociopathic, would not suffer pangs of regret or guilt over acts committed in the name of knowledge.
So what does it all mean?
Well, while I'm annoyed that EVERYONE reads Suetonius so fucking literally, I'm heartened by the way in which it was carried off. I'm still not happy about it, but I can live with it as a part of canon.
And now I'm really eagerly looking forward to Sunday's episode....
That having been said, I'm struggling with Utica a little because I'm not sure how I feel about the incest thing.
Servilia suggests that Octavia seduce her brother Octavian, later the emperor Augustus, in order to get him to tell her about Julius Caesar's epilepsy. Octavia does so, and Octavian goes quite willingly. After which, they are caught by their mother Atia who puts most of the blame on Octavian and then shames Octavia.
I struggle with the incest because, primarily, I know that it's unlikely it occurred. Also I'm fond of Octavian as a character and I don't like to think of him as a "little pervert" (Atia's words). While I personally don't get off on incest fic, etc....
Well. I looked at it from three angles, after which I feel a bit better about the whole thing.
1. Textually speaking: Yes, Suetonius says that Augustus had sex with his sister. But taking into account that Suetonius says this about nearly everyone -- it was a standard slander of the day -- it's hard to find evidence for it. Augustus, in his public and personal life, was a temperate, prudish man who encouraged the sort of conservative family values that make George Dubyah look like a libertine. He exiled his daughter to an island for lesbian activity -- and for god's sake, would have killed her for it if he thought he would get away with it.
However, if we take Suetonius literally:
2. Historically speaking: incest was not considered as abhorrent in some ancient cultures in Africa and the Mediterranean as it is in modern Western culture, whence this series sprang. For a start, the Egyptians engaged in ritual married incest in order to keep the royal bloodline pure. Bear in mind that Cleopatra was married to her preadolescent brother and, after he grew up, would probably have had sex and children with him without anyone lifting an eyebrow. There is evidence being debated in classical circles that lower-class Egyptians occasionally did this as well, in the form of letters between married couples in which they address each other as "brother" and "sister". In addition, the Greek gods, long since subsumed into Roman culture by the time Augustus was born, were predominantly married siblings (Zeus and Hera, et cetera). It was not culturally acceptable in Rome, but it was not necessarily the deep taboo it is today.
3. Literarily speaking: if you look at the way Octavian treats his family and his every-day acquaintances, it appears much more likely that he entered into the process in an anthrpological spirit. Yes, he was a young man who probably wanted sex, but he also thought very rationally about the ramifications of it and the likely cause and result. He is reliably portrayed as an intelligent young man who is interested in all aspects of human relations. He's studied Greek and Egyptian culture extensively by this time and he would be aware that while incest may be considered barbaric by Romans, it was perfectly acceptable in other parts of the world. To me, it looks like he considered the consequences versus the knowledge gained, and decided that it would at least be an interesting experience. Such a mind, while possibly sociopathic, would not suffer pangs of regret or guilt over acts committed in the name of knowledge.
So what does it all mean?
Well, while I'm annoyed that EVERYONE reads Suetonius so fucking literally, I'm heartened by the way in which it was carried off. I'm still not happy about it, but I can live with it as a part of canon.
And now I'm really eagerly looking forward to Sunday's episode....
